Interview by Em Wasserman-Vaianella, undergraduate student, School of Social and Behavioral Sciences, Student Senator, New York Certified Peer Specialist, Human Rights Advocate

 

John J. Lawless, Ph.D., MPH is a professor in the School of Social and Behavioral Sciences.  He started at SUNY Empire State in 2006 as a mentor in Community and Human Services at the Utica location.  He utilizes the Boulder model to develop a teaching and research agenda that links clinical practice, teaching pedagogy, and research. His primary focus in all three areas are on cultural competence, equity, and inclusion. He has presented and moderated multiple presentations on diversity and been a  speaker for conferences on the intersection of diversity and clinical practice. Lawless’ career has spanned human services, psychology, human development, and public health. He has an A.S. in human services from Mohawk Valley Community College, a B.A. in psychology from Binghamton University, a M.S. in counseling psychology from University at Albany, a Ph.D. in child and family development from University of Georgia, and an MPH. from Drexel University. His extensive experience and the knowledge and skills he has acquired through education have allowed him to teach across several disciplines and hold multiple administrative positions throughout his tenure at the college. Lawless has been married for over 25 years and is the proud parent of three sons. He lives in New Hartford, NY, and enjoys skiing, playing guitar, and hiking (He’s a member of the ADK 46er club). 
This interview has been edited for length and clarity.  

 

1. How long have you been at SUNY Empire, and what made you choose this college?  

Lawless: I’ve been with the college since 2006 – 16 years this fall. I was teaching at Drexel University; I’m a couples and family therapist and taught in their graduate program. My wife and my three young kids had the opportunity to move back to New York to be with family; that’s what initially brought me here. As I went through the interview process, I was excited about Empire because of the flexibility of learning, mentoring, and the social justice component. I have always been interested in the intersections of culture and race in therapy, supervision, and education. What attracted me to ESC is that traditionally, a student’s path in education is directed for them – it is not very flexible – but Empire gives students the opportunities to learn how and what they want to learn. It became apparent that Empire offered opportunities that would be exciting for students and me – these are the reasons I stay. 

  

2. What has been your most rewarding and/or memorable experience?

Lawless: This is a difficult question! I appreciate that I get to see students succeed and persevere. I love to watch students engage, struggle, reclaim, and explore how the coursework impacts them. I like to walk students through the materials and come to an understanding of the information they receive. Almost every semester, I see students talk about the material in a unique and novel way. I enjoy seeing them think critically – my favorite part of being a faculty member. Then, of course, graduation – when I get to see students walk the stage and claim their achievements. 

  

3. What are your hobbies/interests outside of teaching?

Lawless: I love to play guitar, ski (downhill and cross country), hike, be outdoors, spend time with family, camp, and decompress. I like to reconnect with the self, family, friends, and nature. It is so important not to get too isolated. 

  

4. Is there a fun or interesting fact you can share about yourself?

Lawless: I am a Dead Head-I’ve seen over 100 Grateful Dead shows. I love live music and spend a lot of time seeing bands. I didn’t get to see their farewell tour in Chicago. The last time I saw them, I was in Georgia doing my doctoral work. 
 
I’m also the program chair of the International Family Therapy Association’s World Congress. We hold our annual meetings (congress) all over the globe, and I always look forward to it. I spend a lot of time thinking about family therapy around the world, gaining support for education and competency in therapy, particularly in areas lacking access to resources. We attempt to understand how different cultures come to understand the line between mental health and mental illness. 

 

5. Are you concerned about the colonization of mental health care? Westerners asserting their knowledge of psychology and psychiatry in areas where behaviors are normalized, but we might consider “mental illness”?

Lawless: Yes, but it is important to consider when we are using our culture to support our behavior – is it what the culture believes (or are we justifying harm?). For example, I worked as a family therapist with IHS (Indian Health Services) in Oneida, NY. Those who are affiliated with a federally recognized tribe/nation could get healthcare. This alone creates tension as some tribes/nations are not recognized and yet have documented claims to tribal lands and/or did not enter into a treaty with the U.S. federal government. Thus, the debate of providing healthcare with colonization as a variable affects healthcare delivery and service. In addition, some tribal territories span state and country boundaries. These create additional strains and stressors for indigenous communities. There is a movement to decolonize family therapy, where we try to remain curious about different cultures and people, but you can’t use culture to approve oppression.   

  

6. If you could give one piece of advice to new students, what would it be?

Lawless: Just because you’re an adult doesn’t mean you can’t ask for help. I think a lot of students feel that adults who may even be helping their kids or partners go through school should have it all figured out. SUNY Empire State is unique, and it takes time to get used to – as any institution is. You are not expected to “get it” right away.  

If you have questions, ask them – don’t wait. It’s easier to take care of a problem weeks before a deadline than one day before its due date. Try not to get caught up with the “shoulds” and “coulds” of being an adult learner. Utilize your mentor and establish a relationship with them. Every mentor I know wants to see you succeed and achieve the goals that you lay out.  Don’t be shy or afraid to ask questions. Of course, like every relationship, this is a two-way street, and the mentor has a lot of responsibility for outreach. But take the time to navigate that relationship.     
 
 
7. What do you look forward to most this fall as we move into a new school year?  

Lawless: It’s always refreshing to start a new year with new students and others that are closer to graduation. I look forward to many things in the new school year, but I would say helping new students move forward is my favorite. I’m also excited to work with the Student Government Association, which is relatively new to the college and me. There are a lot of thoughtful students and people involved, and their passion is clear. 

Higher education is in transition, and a lot is going on with a new president and a new term. It’s exciting, and I believe there is always opportunity in change. I look forward to the new school year. 

 

8. Does it begin to feel like a “new” school year at SUNY Empire with three terms per year without a traditional summer break?

Lawless: Interesting question. The rhythm of summer and fall in the Northeast invites a feeling of renewal. Even though we have three continuous terms, there is still a feeling of “newness” that isn’t typical of the summer term. Our most significant enrollment period is in the fall, which invites excitement. 

 

9. What is the focus of your current research?  

Lawless: I was a faculty member of the college for quite some time, moved into the dean of human services role, then vice provost, then came back to faculty a year ago. I preface this because most of my research has taken a back seat to my roles. However, I have been interested in DEI (Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion)  and how to bring them into therapeutic and educational contexts. Right now, I’m part of a team writing an article examining how structures are built to support white people. I am interested in understanding the role of race, gender, intersecting oppressions, and obstacles to student success. 

 

10. Do you prefer teaching any particular class?

Lawless: I’m a geek, I like teaching research methods and statistics. I think they’re so important, even though I know students don’t like them. My goal is to help them understand how these courses can help them elsewhere. What’s the first thing a person reads in a journal article? Usually, they read the abstract, then the introduction, and jump right to the conclusion. The first thing we read should be the methodology.  We have to understand the methods to understand what they’re doing.   

Allow me to reframe this. I like to teach courses that help students think critically about the issues facing them, whether in the field or in life. We need to learn and think critically about what we’re learning. We can teach students to learn facts or think critically about what they’re reading.